HE following interview with Che Guevara, which appeared in Revolution Africaine, was reported by Josie Fanon, widow of the Algerian revolutionary figure Frantz Fanon, author of Les Damnes de la Terre. The translation is by World Outlook. Josie Fanon: What is the reason for your visit to Algeria? Che Guevara: The reason for my visit is very simple. Ia a few days - am going to visit a number of African countries, and to go to Airica, it 1s necessary for us to come to Algeria first. Weare also utilizing the occasion, before we leave, to discuss general international and African problems with our Algerian « yernment brothers. We are thinking of staying two or three days senger in Algeria. Josie Fanon: Would you indicate in broad outline the position of the Cuban government in relation to Africa as a whole? Che Guevara: Africa represents one of the most important, if not the most important, fields of battle against all the forms of exploitation existing in the world, against imperialism, colonialism and neocolonialism. There are big possibiliies for success in Africa, but there are also many dangers. The positive aspects include the youth of the African peoples as modern states, the hate which colonialism has left in the minds of the people, the very clear consciousness which the peoples possess of the profound differences existing between an African man and the colonizer, the conviction that there can never be sincere friendship between them, except after the definite departure of the colonizer. There are also other positive aspects: the present possibilities of a much more rapid development than even a few years ago due to the aid which some of the capitalist countries can likewise provide under certain conditions (but on this point we must be vigilant). What we consider to be the principal danger for Africa is the possibility of division among the African peoples which appears to be continually rising. On the one side there are the lackeys of imperialism, on the other the peoples seeking to free themselves along the roads suited to them. We have concrete reasons
for fearing this danger. There is
the phenomenon of unequal ex-
changes between the industrialized
countries and the economically de-
pendent countries. This relation of
inequality is shown in the most
brutal way in connection with col-
onialism. But the completely inde-
pendent countries also risk finding
themselves locked up in the prison of
the capitalist market because the big
industrialized countries impose this
through their high technical devel:p-
ment. The big developed countries
begin, after independence, to exercise
a kind of “suction” on the liberated
countries and after a few years the
conditions are again ripe for political
domination.
We believe that in Africa the bour-
geoisie still has a word to say today.
This is quite different from Latin
America where the national bour-
geoisie no longer has any choice but
to submit ocmpletely to the orders
of imperialism. In many independ-
ent African countries, the bourgeoise
has, in the beginning, the possibility
of developing and of playing a “rela-
tively” progressive role. It can,
for a time, mobilize the people and
the forces of the Left under the
slogan of the struggle against imperi-
alism, but inevitably the moment
comes when this bourgeoisie and the
government representing it end up
in an impasse. It is not possible
for the bourgeoisie, by its very nature,
to follow the road into which the
people seek to push it. The only
course remaining open to it is col-
laboration with imperialism and op-
pression of the people. In brief, it
can be said that there are at present
big possibilities in Africa because of
the effervescence existing in this
tegion of the world but that there
are also real dangers which we have
to keep in mind. There are import-
ant economic problems that must be
remembered. Unequal relations in
international exchanges leads to an
impasse where it becomes very easy
to concede to imperialism and to
oppress the people whom, for a short
period, they appeared to serve.
Josie Fanon: If you were asked
what road of economic development
was best suited for the African coun-
tries, what would you say?
Che Guevara: If my advice were
asked, or rather my opinion, as Cuban
Minister of Industry, I would say
simply that a <cuntry »eginning to
develop itself must, in the first period,
work above all at organization and
that one should approach the practi-
cal problems by “using your own
head”. This may seem to be an
abstract and rather vague opinion but
it’s something very important.
In Africa, where many countries
have already carried out very exten-
sive nationalizations, there is perhaps
the possibility of creating certain
enterprises to provide products for
other countries lacking them and vice
versa. It is necessary to work in the
spirit of mutual profit and for that it
is necessary to know each other better
and to establish relations of confi-
dence. At first this must be limited
to very simple things. It may be
necessary at times to set up small
plants requiring a lot of workers and
offering jobs for many unemployed,
. rather than highly mechanized enter-
prises employing a reduced number of
workers. In certain cases, a sector
must be rapidly mechanized; in other
cases this is not necessary. In fact,
in a country on the road to develop-
ment most problems involve agricul-
ture and extractive industry, but it is
quite evident that these problems are
posed in a different way in each
country, and that one must pay atten-
tion above all to particular realities.
That’s why it is impossible to give
a. general formula that could be
applied to all the African countries.
Josie Fanon: What are the perspec-
tives, in your opinion, of the revolu-
tionary struggle in Latin America?
Che Guevara: You know, that is
something close to my heart; it’s my
keenest interest. We believe that the
revolutionary struggle is a very long
struggle, very hard. It is difficult to
believe—difficult, but evidently not
impossible—in the isolated triumph
of the revolution in one country. Im-
perialism has been preparing an
organized repression of the peoples
of Latin America for some years. In
different countries they have formed
an international of repression. Right
now, in fact, in the Latin-American
countries where the last battles were
fought for the liberation of America
from the Spanish yoke, in Peru, mili-
tary manoeuvres are being held.
Various countries are participating
in these manoeuvres, conducted by
the United States, in the Ayacucho
region. What we are witnessing in
=——»>
THE WEEK — Feb. 25, 1965 Ameriea
this region is direct preparations for repression. And why are these manoeuvres taking place precisely in this mountainous region of Peru, in this jungle zone? It is because Ayacucho is situated close to the place where important revolutionary bases exist. Ayacucho was not chosen by accident. The Americans are paying a lot of attention to the problem of guerrilla war. They have written some very interesting things on this. They have grasped the quite correct idea that guerrilla war is extremely difficult to liquidate if it is not liquidated as soon as it appears. All their strategy is no worientated o nthis objective, taking two main form: first of all, repression; secondly, the isolation of the revolutionists from their main base—the peasants. I read in an American document the very expression used by Mao Tse-tung: “Among the people, revolutionists are like a fish in water.” The Americans have grasped that the power of the guerrilla fighter resides in this, and they have grasped that everything must be done to stop this from continuing. Clearly, all these factors make the struggle more difficult. But against the international of repression will come the inevitable and natural reply of the international of the struggle of the proletarians and the peasants against the common enemy. That is why we foresee the organization of a continental front of struggle against imperialism and its domestic allies. This front will take a long time to organize, but when it exists it will be a severe blow against imperialsim. I don’t know if it will be a definite blow, but it will be a very hard blow. It is for this reason that we pose this fundamental principle: the struggle for freedom must be not only a defensive struggle but likewise an offensive struggle against imperialism. We will even add that the working class in the United States, because of its high standard of living, does not see in a keen way the contradictions existing in American society. To the American workers, these contradictions appear softened and they cannot gain clear consciousness of their own exploitation as long as they continue to get the crumbs which North American imperialism tosses to them from the feast.
SUKARNO :
We have 21 million